Wednesday, September 8, 2010

Steve Oh Refutes Ouyang Wen Feng

Gays imposing their lifestyle on us
Steve Oh
Sep 7, 10

I refer to the Malaysiakini report It's not a gay church, explains pastor. The idea is preposterous no matter how hard Ouyang Wen Feng tries to convince us. But there will always be people who will follow anything because it suits them.

They will explain away the traditional and correct interpretations of certain scriptures that condemn homo-sodomizers and the sad bit is they can be convincing to the unwary who do not study the entire teachings of the Christian faith or receive the proper guidance from sound teachers of the faith.

But religion is not about twisting a teaching to suit ourselves. There is a word for this sort of thing. It is called heresy and every religion suffers from it. You either accept a religion's teachings or you don't. This is what we expect of an honest believer.

If you want to change part of a religion's cardinal teachings, the honest thing to do is to invent your own as many people have done over the ages. Expecting Christians to accept something as seriously heretical as the gay agenda is like saying a Hindu should eat beef, a Muslim not fast and pray and a Buddhist believe in God.

Christianity has been assaulted by all kinds of heresies since its inception. Some are not even Christian and call themselves churches. Some even hide their real teachings behind traditional Christianity to gain respectability.

That is why all the epistles were written to help the early believers understand the doctrines of their faith and protect the churches from heresies, and heretics, and there were some strong words reserved for them. You can't claim misinterpretation when the entire Bible clarifies its stand against homosexuality in different places, not just one passage of the Bible.

No doubt the gays will give their interpretation but other parts of the Bible will expose the fallacy of their arguments. There are too many instances where homosexuality is condemned.

Christians are 'sinners' from all walks of life and backgrounds who approach God in humility and feel remorse for their sins and repent from sinful lifestyles. They believe the Gospel that Jesus Christ died for all their sins at Calvary and that they can be 'born again' by accepting and receiving Jesus into their hearts and then living their lives in obedience to his teachings which are recorded in the Gospels and the teachings of the epistles and doing good works.

That is why included in the list I referenced above are homosexual offenders, together with adulterers, thieves, robbers, murderers, fornicators etc. Many homosexual offenders, not just the temple prostitutes, were delivered from their besetting sin.

In Rome as in Sodom, gay orgies were a common feature of the social life of the decadent Romans, and that is why for 300 years Christianity was persecuted, because it offended the Emperor-worshipping and orgy-loving Romans.

There were people who thought they could have a bit of Jesus and then add or subtract and turn Christianity into a 'do-it-yourself' faith. It resulted in heresy and often sin. If religion is something that I can pick and choose like my favourite food at a buffet meal then it is meaningless. I might as well make my own. Ouyang's group will achieve credibility if they desist from claiming to be Christians because the Bible exhorts Christians from fellow-shipping with those who claim to be Christians but among other things 'sexually immoral.'

As much as Ouyang's arguments may reflect his good intentions, I find many of his reported comments too outlandish and self-contradictory, to ignore. In particular I quote, 'The reverend notes that apart from citing religious beliefs, no one can articulate 'what is wrong with homosexuality, or what harm it does to individuals or the society.' Perhaps Ouyang should start listening for a change.

The body of evidence worldwide provides proof the militant gay agenda has split communities and societies more than any other civic group in recent times. If dividing society is not harmful then I have nothing to say. And if being the conduit of the initial Aids scourge is not harmful, then what is?

In the West they call it 'gay-bashing'. Many males resort to violence against gays because they feel that gays demean and have a negative impact on their manhood. I don't condone this criminal act, but it reflects the harm many males experience and react negatively.

Gay couples also confuse gender roles. There may be feminists and gays but there are also many more who think that traditional gender roles are being harmed by the gay agenda, as some women think feminists do more harm to women than good. Why should the liberal values of the fringe groups that encroach on mainstream society be accepted as the norm just because they have a louder voice in the popular media?

It is something I hope gays understand. Male relationships have been negatively affected by the gay culture and it is not nice to be thought of as gay because men get along well with other men.

Gays only talk of gay rights but what about non-gay rights to not accept gay agendas? After all, it is gays who are imposing their lifestyle on others because no one cares what couples do in their bedrooms but they have to bring it up in the public and demand acceptance.

Why should gays broadcast their sexual preference? If they are worried about their property and other rights why don't they make private contracts between themselves instead of changing societies traditional laws and values to accommodate them?

The mere act of accepting gay rights is a defacto denial of our traditional rights. And that is why gays and Christianity are incompatible in the sense of an active gay sexual lifestyle. Religion aside, though it provides the strongest defence against all forms of moral decay in society, what will happen to the human race when everyone is gay or lesbian? Where will children come from?

If homosexuality is harmless why are the major religions like Christianity and Islam against it? Why did God destroy Sodom? Or have the gays seriously considered that God is deadly serious against this sin? And they may be deluded since this is a common warning in the Bible?

Every great civilization nearing its decline sees the rise of social and moral decay and we catch glimpses of that in the West today. Not only have they lost touch with the family they have ditched traditional family values. Western children call their fathers by name and show utter disrespect for their parents and the elderly. They have forgotten the meaning of roles. And liberal governments encourage the young to split the family. It wasn't always like that.

Many traditional values are under siege in the West and many Westerners themselves are extremely concerned and upset. And today the agenda is same sex marriage. And next? I dread to think. Do Malaysians want to ape the West in their decadent ways? The gay church is not only a religious perversion of Christianity but a serious threat to moral society and the survival of modern civilisation.

That so many famous or infamous people are gays is beside the point. Once all of Germany's and Japan's 'who is who' were for a hideous agenda of world domination. Did that make it right?

If gays are serious about justice they should stop and consider if they themselves have been just to their societies that they are trying to re-invent. Have they considered that some males do not like being treated as sex objects by other males? Do they consider that their militant ways are dividing their communities?

And using the 'you are homophobic' if you dislike gays is a cop out. It is a blanket slander of genuine dislike of the gay lifestyle which many males find simply repugnant. Or do they not have the right to dislike something that they find abhorrent like someone having sex with an animal?

No one is going to convince me that homo-sodomy is okay when science tells you the anus is not meant for sex. There are humans who find pleasure in having sex with animals and objects and young children so should we also accommodate them?

Who we have sex with is a choice. Because we have an urge does not mean we need to satisfy it. Otherwise we would be having sex like animals. And don't tell me some animals have same-sex sex because who wants to imitate animals? The truth is animals know better what homosexuals don't. Some homosexuals proselytize and initiate confused youths into a lifestyle that has seen young gays having a high incidence of suicides which they again falsely blame on society. Society hates thieves and robbers and toll collectors but do they have a high suicide rate?

Religion has served societies well with upright laws and values. And throughout history there will be people to test their limits, and when they succeed often follows the slide down the slippery slope, unless it is something that benefits all of society. Not all who are against the homosexual lobby are religious people as I have illustrated with the gay-bashers.

In the 70's there was a group called the Children of God who used their female members to become 'holy hookers' for God. These females believed that love is sharing and that includes their bodies. It was the result of false teaching but try to convince them.

Often those who are unwary are the unwitting victims and I have no doubt there are genuine gays who seek spiritual comfort but being told you can be gay and Christian is like telling an alcoholic you can be a member of Alcoholics Anonymous and still keep drinking your favourite alcoholic beverage. Sadly you can't be that insanely contradictory.

In case people who don't know me start labelling me let me clarify that I have studied the gay issue and spoken to gays long before the advent of the militant gay agenda. It would be simplistic to draw a one size fits all conclusion or solution to a complex problem and it would be equally simplistic to think that once gay always gay or that one is born that way.

Ironically gays like Ouyang have found the Holy Grail in Christianity but sadly have used it to draw the life-giving liquid not from the true 'spring of living water' but a poisoned well and as Islamic cleric, Harusanni Zakaria rightly said, 'will destroy the world' and sadly, themselves in the process. As the Bible says 'there is a way that seems right but leads only in death.'

RespectDiversity Everyone deserve the right to interpret their religion in their personal capacity. No one should impose their personal analysis of Christian scriptures to the dismay of others. Whether a selected view is mainstream or not, no one can dictate that their interpretation of god is the right one and lambaste others as heretics. All in all, there must be a live and let live policy as humans. This is explained in the variety of Christian sects around the world.

Steve Oh Dr Suresh Kumar, so what is your point? Who is denying gays their fundamental rights? Surely an intelligent doctor like you if you are one can differentiate between right and wrong. When gays distort Christianity, Christians have the right to rebut them. If you read my letter properly I said the gay problem is complex. There are different types of gays. Hormonal imbalance occurs also in heterosexuals. The problem is not about whether gays have the right to exist - it is they have distorted Christianity and don't expect Christians to sit down and embrace them for destroying the truth in a false concept of compassion and love. That is the issue at hand. Would you be upset if I suggest bomohs should be accepted as equals in the medical profession?

Steve Oh Aiyah Jerusalem Cross..homo topic not joking matter why you like dat? You can cry mother cry father all you like but what I say is what Bible teaches so no need to attack me lah. Go and study the Bible properly then you will understand what real compassion is...and why i am real Christian and not bluff bluff one. If people call your mother a prostitute you will keep quiet meh? People want to corrupt God's teaching so real Christians got to tell them they are wrong ..that also cannot ah?Real love is telling people the truth like telling govt the truth... I love gays and got nothing against them and can make friends with them what but not as Christian brothers...if my son is gay I will tell him same thing lah...truth is truth what...BTW I can tell you more stories how I help gays and they can contact me anytime for help...if I don't care for gays you think I want to waste time writing and kena attack by people like you? Don't joke lah! Ask your gay friends to talk to me anytime.

Dr. Suresh Kumar To say the gays are trying to impose their belief on others is preposterous to say the least. God has given us brains to think and analyse our thoughts before we translate it into action. Secondly the male/female hormonal imbalance or defect in a person is also responsible for the behaviour. Without elaborating much, I just wish to say that, as human beings, the gays too have a rightful place under the sun. We may despise them and their actions, but we have no right to discriminate or punish them for what they are, only their maker has the final say.

Patriot I do not think there is any imposition of one's way of life or sexual inclinations on anyone. The choice is left us to follow or not, accept or do not accept. It is unfortunate they have been created this way and out of the norm. The stigma is itself bad enough. Do not make it even worse by ridiculing and condemning them for something which is no fault of theirs unless you are willing to help to alter their chromosomes to set it right and proper. It is always easy to use religion to justify one's acceptance or rejection and in the process, refuse to see real person who leads an isolated life. I am no gay or easily influenced by anyone.

Jerusalem Cross Steve Oh lets hope one of your kids turns out to be gay. Then maybe you will learn compassion. Call yourself a Christian? Don't joke-lah.

Steve Oh Ida, God sets the conditions who is a Christian. The acid test is obedience. Jesus asked, "Why do you call me Lord, Lord but do not do what I say?" In the Bible (John 6) you see him lay down his terms and it was recorded many no longer walked with him. Many people have a false idea of what a Christian is. How do gays glorify God when what they do is an abomination to God? If everyone comes to God on his or her terms there is no Christianity. The vital point is when people turn to God they must turn from sin and that is something some find hard to do like the rich young man (love of money) in the parable. When gays come to God like every sinner God accepts them but they have to give up what God considers sin. In fact it is very Christian to reject those who corrupt Christianity. The Bible commands Christians to not accept those who are slanderous, drunkards, swindlers and sexually immoral, among other things. It is what the Bible teaches, I am just pointing out what it says.

ida bakar Dear Steve Oh, Gay or not Christians have this need for God. If mainstream churches cannot and would not accommodate them, why not let them have a church of their own. No doubt you see them as corrupter of mainstream Christianity but to deny them space to glorify God is not very 'Christian', surely?

SusahKes Steve, I like the way you articulate the issue. No doubt there will be a mass of opposing views that bombard....I agree with you that these days, it appears that the homosexual movement is the one that is bent on imposing their values on the rest. How easily we are labelled homophobic, simply because we wish to adhere to what God has already wanted us to do. Then again, Jesus did foretell, "as it was in the days of Noah...." In the past, one of the arguments was that gays were born that way. But the latest finding by the American Psychological Association, is that there is no gay gene. By the same token, if I had a friend who was alcoholic - and some say that alcoholism is hereditary - does that mean I should not tell my friend to change his lifestyle, simply because he was "born that way"? I too can't imagine a God who created male & female, & commanded them to procreate/multiply, would then leave out gay relationships from his plan if He was ok with it. Unless of course, He is not ok.

Jefferson76 Thank you for speaking up for those of us who don't agree with how Mr. Ouyang interprets the Bible.



  1. No matter how we feel about same-sex marriage, the exegesis for the 2nd and 3rd chapters of Genesis makes us uncomfortable. Why? Because the deed Adam and Eve did, according to the evidence in the story, was sodomy--the mystery the bishop of Hippo almost solved 1600 years ago. (He thought the sin was penile/vaginal.) For more information google The First Scandal Adam and Eve. Then click, read, and click again.

  2. Robert,

    I published your comment does not mean I agreed with your study. Genesis Chapter 2 & 3 have never mentioned about the sexual relationship between Adam & Eve. How did you make up the story?